Q6600: So where's the power?

[desktop]

Everyone says that I won't really notice a difference - speed wise - with my Q6600 because I'm not running any video editing or such which takes advantage of the four cores. My question is - is there a way that I can see the power of the Q6600 on my system and what would I need to do in order to see it?

I'm asking this because after blowing my whole income tax on this new system I don't really notice a big difference from my old P4 2.4GHz system.

Thanks.

[Olin Coles]

I seem to recall giving some very specific advice back in this thread (http://forum.benchmarkreviews.com/showthread.php?t=11261). So without much discussion, I will nicely tell you that the money was not well spent.

The recipe for a fast system begins with the system boot drive, and ends with the processor. You essentially bet the farm on a race horse to pull tank. What possessed you to go for the slower FSB and more cores, anyway?

[desktop]

Slower FSB? Uh, I went with the Quad because it's what everyone recommended I get. Since I don't know a lot about these things and I believed the people I was talking to did then I figured to go with their advice.

I am simply asking questions here. No need to be aggravated or anything. It's a little late now to be second guessing my purchase so I am merely wondering how to best utilize what I already have.

[Olin Coles]

Yes, slower front side bus. The Q6600 has a 1066 MHz FSB, while the Core 2 Duo CPU's we recommended to you in this forum use the 1333 MHz FSB.

So how to best utilize your hardware.... learn how to edit video footage, design in CAM/CAD software, edit high-definition audio, contribute to the Folding at Home project, learn how to work with server technologies, enjoy multi-core optimized video games...

I can't think of too many reasons for the casual computer user to need a quad-core CPU, but the list of uses is almost as small. Generally speaking, multicore computing is most relevant to server environments.

[desktop]

Basically when I told people I was going to be using large graphic programs like Photoshop and Illustrator and also multi-tasking that is when I started getting the "Quad" advice.

So the Duo has a faster FSB than the Quad? That seems a little odd, doesn't it? You would think the Q6600 would be faster, especially since it costs more than the Duo. Weird.

Well, that'll teach me to believe everything I hear, even from so-proclaimed "experts". I'm not talking about here, but in the other places I went to get advice. Crap. Oh well, no use crying about it, lol.

[Olin Coles]

It's not really all that odd. The C2D (Core 2 Duo) has less operating overhead, so it can reach the high FSB's. The C2Q doesn't quite stack up, yet. The motorcycle goes faster than the car, so cost should never be the measure of performance.

In regards to the "experts", I would suggest learning what they do for a living. I build high-end computer systems for designers and engineers as my primary profession, not a side hobby. All too often I get to read the (often wrong) advice of keyboard warriors professing to be experts simply because they have tinkered with their own hardware for years and spend too much time preaching their advice in web forums.

Not do drive off topic, but this past 33-Way Thermal Interface Material Comparison (http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=138&Itemid=1) article is a perfect example. I got way too much hate mail and negative forum posts from too many people. Most complained of "improper" testing while other said the entire project was a waste because there were no cure times. After a week of research and interviews with the manufacturers, it turns out that only five out of the 33 projects recommended any sort of curing time or special application. Seems that the wanna-be experts that lead the post count can be wrong more often than not, and the believers in forums are endless.

[.:Cyb3rGlitch:.]

Overclock the sucker and run SuperPI mod, then you'll see the power. :P

If you don't notice the difference, it's because you're not doing anything that's CPU intensive. If you were a gamer or video editor, you'd see a huge gain. The slower FSB means nothing in reality (unless we're talking about the motherboard), so there's nothing to worry about there.

The quad will get it's chance to shine soon enough if you have Vista (XP struggles with 2 cores), but you'll have to wait for software companies to play catch-up.

[desktop]

Well, I decided to make some use of this system and play Assassin's Creed, so I went to the game site and ran their "tester" to see how my system stacked up. The only thing I need to upgrade is the graphics card, which I was planning on doing anyway since I'm not a big fan of ATI cards. The Diamond I bought for my PC was on a ridiculous sale which is why I bought it. The card I'm thinking of upgrading to is this one here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130319), which has a Shader Model 4.0 and will handle most anything I throw at it.

Here are my system specs - Gigabyte P35-DS4 (Rev 2.1), Intel Quad Q660 SLACR, PCP&C Silencer 610, 2 x 1GB G.SKILL PC6400, Thermalright Ultra 120E, Windows XP Home (SP2), Diamond Viper X1650 Pro 512MB PCI-E, Lite-On SATA DVD burner, and a Seagate 320GB SATA HD.

Now my question is should I also upgrade to Vista? Or will I be able to play something like this fine on XP Home? I've been reading up on the XBox 360 controller for Windows and most of the sites recommend having Vista.

Another thing it seems I'll need is an XBox controller (for PC) and the wireless receiver. This device gets a mixed bag on reviews so I figure it's probably a gamble on that. If anyone here owns one I would appreciate your input on this as well.

Thanks in advance for your replies.

[Olin Coles]

You might want to look at this video card instead: Zotac 8800 GT Amp! Edition available at NewEgg for $199.99 (http://www.tkqlhce.com/click-2339666-10446076?url=http%3A//www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500006)

The full review can answer your questions: http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=87&Itemid=72

It is also referenced and compared in this review: ZOTAC GeForce 9800 GTX 512MB Video Card (http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=154&Itemid=72)

[desktop]

Hi, Olin. Thanks for the reply. That card is a monster! Would you know if that card is a Shader Model 3? The game site recommends a card that has at least Shader Model 3.

[Olin Coles]

Shader Model 4.0

The full review can answer your questions: http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...d=87&Itemid=72

Also, where did you go to test Assassin's Creed? I have the game, and want to benchmark it.

[desktop]

Will do. Thanks, Olin. I'm off to read your review.....

Would you have any suggestions on my other question, about upgrading to Vista? Or will my XP Home run the game just fine? Also, do you know anything on the XBox controller (and receiver) for Windows? And I don't have any HD devices, but that shouldn't matter, should it?

[desktop]

Excellent review, and a sweet card. Thanks for heads up :)

Would you recommend some sort of secondary heat exhaust solution for this card or will it be fine as is?

[Olin Coles]

Will do. Thanks, Olin. I'm off to read your review.....

Would you have any suggestions on my other question, about upgrading to Vista? Or will my XP Home run the game just fine? Also, do you know anything on the XBox controller (and receiver) for Windows? And I don't have any HD devices, but that shouldn't matter, should it?

I don't think Vista is worthwhile... now or ever. It doesn't bring anything to the table that XP can't already offer... except DirectX 10... and that's been a flop. I would stick with XP for sure.

The controller is something I know nothing about.

The Zotac 8800 GT AMP! edition already has a larger fan, and runs VERY cool.

[desktop]

Thanks. I will get this card along with my new monitor (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824252008) when the cash arrives.

[desktop]

Olin, I was wondering if you could tell me does it matter that I have no HD devices? It will still run fine otherwise, right?

Also, you know I got the Ultra m998 case, will this card fit in that case? I haven't taken any measurements yet, but I would think it would because that case is huge.

Just wondering. Thanks.

[Olin Coles]

Plenty of room in the m998... which would fit everything actually... they all conform to ATX standards.

HD is just added functionality, so you're fine without the devices. It's meant to handle them if you have them.

[desktop]

Thanks. Just reading some reviews on the monitor I want (CHIMEI 22" Widescreen) and it gets pretty good feedback from owners. I was originally going for this Dell Ultrasharp 2007WPF (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-4688), but after reading about the "banding" issue and the different versions of this monitor I decided to save myself $200 and go with the CHIMEI.

Now true, the CHIMEI is a TN panel where the 2007WFP is a SP-IPS panel (which is better for graphic designers), but I didn't want the hassle of "maybe" getting the right version, especially for $400.

[.:Cyb3rGlitch:.]

I don't think Vista is worthwhile... now or ever. It doesn't bring anything to the table that XP can't already offer... except DirectX 10... and that's been a flop. I would stick with XP for sure.

I disagree. Vista, unlike XP, can properly manage multiple CPU cores. It is also more stable. Vista is the best option for a new PC, older PCs should stick with XP.

[Olin Coles]

I disagree. Vista, unlike XP, can properly manage multiple CPU cores. It is also more stable. Vista is the best option for a new PC, older PCs should stick with XP.

Just curious where this has been tested and confirmed, since many people (myself included) have used quad-core processors on XP and watched each core assign a load separately. Stability is a different issue, since Vista in my experience limits what you can do. I am not a fan of any Operating System that consumes 4x more RAM to idle along compared to XP.

[.:Cyb3rGlitch:.]

Just curious where this has been tested and confirmed, since many people (myself included) have used quad-core processors on XP and watched each core assign a load separately. Stability is a different issue, since Vista in my experience limits what you can do. I am not a fan of any Operating System that consumes 4x more RAM to idle along compared to XP.
The more RAM you have, the more RAM it'll use. Vista caches programs into RAM so they load faster (which is a good thing IMO).
Regarding multiple cores, XP can set tasks on each, but when actually multithreading, it suffers greatly due to the limited multiple core support. Vista's CPU scheduler has been re-developed to take advantage of multiple cores, after all, XP is 7 years old.

Here is some info: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc162494.aspx

I've been using Vista since BETA 2, and I've had no issues with RTM. With SP1 and a new machine, I'd recommend Vista as the OS. Or, perhaps even dual boot with XP.

[desktop]

I approach a new OS much like I do a new gaming system. When the DS came out (the "phat" version) everyone was pushing me to get it. "Oh it's the greatest thing! You should buy one now!" Well, I didn't. I'm not a conformist and I prefer to wait and see how a particular product performs before diving in head first. Eventually Nintendo upstaged the "phat" version with the DS-Lite, and then I bought one. I had waited until Nintendo had some time to work out all the bugs as well as slimline the design. The same can be said for the OS; I'm going to wait until all the kinks are worked out before I plunked down my hard earned money on Vista. For the moment XP is doing me fine and I see no reason to follow the crowd.

[desktop]

Olin, a couple more questions on the Zotac card ... even if I'm not going to do any gaming would you still recommend this card for me? Will it be beneficial for graphic design work?

Thanks.

[Olin Coles]

If you are not going to be playing 3D video games, then you might reconsider your purchase. Although workstation graphics may benefit a small amount from a good 3D video card, you would have much better performance out of either a FireGL or Quattro graphics solution. There are generally much more expensive, but they're geared towards higher-end 2D graphics.

In my opinion though, graphics design work such as Photoshop or AutoCAD can use nearly any discrete graphics solution available. I am able to use Photoshop CS3 on my laptop with an X300 integrated video card with no difference in performance compared to when I use it on my workstation computer with a 9800 GX2. I also have several clients that are running AutoCAD 2008 with GeForce 4 video cards that perform very well.

The bottom line is that 2D desktop graphic applications will work fine on just about anything.

[desktop]

Shader Model 4.0
Also, where did you go to test Assassin's Creed? I have the game, and want to benchmark it.

Olin, I'm not sure if I answered this for you so here is the link (http://www.yougamers.com/news/17001_ubisoft_unveil_the_pc_specs_for_assassins_cr eed/) to the page where I found the game tester. Scroll down a bit until you read "...click here to run the Game-o-Meter - it's totally free to run, no personal information is stored and you'll have an accurate answer in seconds."

Click that link and you'll be taken to the page where you can run the Game-O-Meter to test if your system can run Assassin's Creed.

[Olin Coles]

OH! Ok, thats the FutureMark game-o-meter that's a mini 3dMark06 tool. I thought you had somehow discovered an Assassin's Creed benchmark... something that's presently non-existant. Thanks for the heads-up!

[desktop]

There's quite a few benchmarks out there for AC. I just did a Google on it and found lots of them. Is there a specific one you're looking for?

By the way, thanks for the heads-up on that Zotac card. I'm going to be getting that soon.

On second thought ... tonight I came across this XFX GeForce 8800GT 512MB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150252) on Newegg. The only difference in the specs (that I could find) is the core clock, memory clock, and the price. Newegg currently has it on sale with free shipping and a $30 rebate. It has a lifetime warranty which is nice. And it is a Shader Model 4.0 - w00t!